Ðàçãîâîðû îá Àìåðèêå
www.gerasimov.org
 
  FAQFAQ             
            

Ford Mustang îòêàçûâàåòñÿ îò èñòîðè÷åñêîãî îáëèêà
1, 2, 3  .
 
           Ðàçãîâîðû îá Àìåðèêå -> Çà ðóëåì
::  
crp
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 09.08.2009
: 117

: , 18, 2012 8:08pm     : Ford Mustang îòêàçûâàåòñÿ îò èñòîðè÷åñêîãî îáëèêà

Àìåðèêàíñêèé ïðîèçâîäèòåëü Ford ïëàíèðóåò îòêàçàòüñÿ îò êîíñåðâàòèâíîãî îáëèêà ñâîåé ëåãåíäû – Ford Mustang. Ïî ïðåäâàðèòåëüíîé èíôîðìàöèè, ñëåäóþùåå ïîêîëåíèå ìóñêóëèñòîãî «æåðåáöà» áóäåò âûïîëíåíî â äóõå êîíöåïò-êàðà Ford Evos, ïîêàçàííîãî íà ïðîøëîãîäíåì Ôðàíêôóðòñêîì àâòîøîó.



Ïî äàííûì àâòîðèòåòíîãî èçäàíèÿ Wall Street Journal, âûõîä íîâèíêè áóäåò ïðèóðî÷åí ê 50-ëåòèþ ìîäåëè â 2014 ãîäó. Ïðè÷èíîé êàðäèíàëüíîé ñìåíû èìèäæà ñòàëè íåóòåøèòåëüíûå öèôðû ïðîäàæ íûíåøíåãî ïîêîëåíèÿ Mustang. Åñëè â 2006 ãîäó êîìïàíèè óäàëîñü ðåàëèçîâàòü áîëåå 166 òûñ. àâòîìîáèëåé, òî â ïðîøëîì ýòîò ïîêàçàòåëü åäâà ïðåâûñèë 70 òûñ. ýêçåìïëÿðîâ. Öåëåâîé àóäèòîðèåé äëÿ íîâîãî Mustang ñòàíóò ìîëîäûå ëþäè ðîäîì èç 80-90-õ ãîäîâ ïðîøëîãî âåêà, êîòîðûì ÷óæäû ðåòðî-ìîòèâû.

http://auto.mail.ru/article.html?id=36942

×òî äóìàåøü Àíäðåé?
Tet
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 18.07.2011
: 1233
: Óêðàèíà, íî ùà âðåìåííî â Èòàëèè

: , 18, 2012 9:05pm     : Ford Mustang îòêàçûâàåòñÿ îò èñòîðè÷åñêîãî îáëèêà

ß áîëåå äðåâíåãî âûïóñêà, ÷åì 80-90å, íî è ìíý òàêîé ìàøèí î÷ýíü íðàâèòüñÿ)
_________________
Çäîðîâüÿ, ìèðà, óäà÷è è äîëãèõ ñ÷àñòëèâûõ ëåò.
Tatiana_tetris@ukr.net
    e-mail
Evgeniy Malyshev
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 12.03.2012
: 450
: Dm.-Pomryaskino/Ulyanovsk, Russia

: , 19, 2012 7:04am     :

ß ñòîðîííèê ñòàðûõ Ìóñòàíãîâ. È åñëè ïîäâåðíåòñÿ âîçìîæíîñòü, áóäó åçäèòü íà íèõ Øèðîêàÿ óëûáêà
_________________
If you`re going to San Francisco,
Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair
If you`re going to San Francisco,
You`re gonna meet some gentle people there
    e-mail
crp
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 09.08.2009
: 117

: , 19, 2012 10:55am     : Re: Ford Mustang îòêàçûâàåòñÿ îò èñòîðè÷åñêîãî îáëèêà

Tet ():
ß áîëåå äðåâíåãî âûïóñêà, ÷åì 80-90å, íî è ìíý òàêîé ìàøèí î÷ýíü íðàâèòüñÿ)
Ìíå òîæå ñèìïàòè÷åí äèçàéí Evos'a íî ìóñòàíã âñå òàêè áðóòàëüíåé âûãëÿäèò Óëûáêà
Andrew
Ãëàâíûé òðåïà÷


: 01.03.2003
: 10421
: Èðêóòñê, RU -> Los Angeles, US

: , 20, 2012 6:10am     : Re: Ford Mustang îòêàçûâàåòñÿ îò èñòîðè÷åñêîãî îáëèêà

crp ():
×òî äóìàåøü Àíäðåé?

Ñïàñèáî çà âîïðîñ.

Ó ìåíÿ íà ýòîò ñ÷åò 2 ìíåíèÿ:

1) Ñ öåëüþ ïðèâëå÷ü ìîëîäóþ àóäèòîðèþ ïðèäåòñÿ ìåíÿòü íå òîëüêî âíåøíèé âèä Ìóñòàíãà, äåëàÿ åãî áîëåå ìîëîäåæíûì, íî è ìåíÿòü ïîäâåñêó è äâèãàòåëü. Íåñïðîñòà óæå áîëüøå ãîäà ïèøóò, ÷òî íîâàÿ âåðñèÿ Ìóñòàíãà ìîæåò ïîÿâèòüñÿ ñ 2.5-ëèòðîâûì 4-öèëèíäðîâûì òóðáèðîâàííûì äâèãàòåëåì. Ïîäâåñêó æå ìåíÿòü ïîòîìó, ÷òî ìíîãèå ìîëîäûå ëþäè, âûðîñøèå íà âñÿêèé Íèññàíàõ 350Z è ïðî÷èõ Ïðèóñàõ íà ñàìîì äåëå íå ïîíèìàþò òîãî óäîâîëüñòâèÿ, êîòîðîå ïîëó÷àåøü îò åçäû íà Muscle Car. Îò Muscle Car, ïî-ñóòè, íè÷åãî è íå îñòàíåòñÿ â òàêîì ñëó÷àå. Íàçûâàòü ýòî Ìóñòàíãîì ÿ íå ñìîãó.

Õî÷åòñÿ âåðèòü, ÷òî äî òàêîãî íå äîéäåò, èëè ïî êðàéíåé ìåðå íå ê 50-ëåòíåé ãîäîâùèíå. Íî ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû, ìàðêåòîëîãè ìîãóò ïîñòàðàòüñÿ íå óïóñòèòü âîçìîæíîñòè ïðèóðî÷èòü ê òàêîé êðóãëîé äàòå ïîÿâëåíèå Ìóñòàíãà "íîâîãî" ïîêîëåíèÿ. Âðåìÿ ïîêàæåò.

Âðåìÿ óæå, êñòàòè, ïîêàçûâàëî, ÷òî íàä Ìóñòàíãîì óæå ïûòàëèñü ýêñïåðèìåíòèðîâàòü ñ âíåøíèì âèäîì è ñ äâèãàòåëÿìè. Íà 1984 ãîäà "SVO" Ìóñòàíãå äàæå ïðîáîâàëè ñòàâèòü 4-öèëèíäðîâûé òóðáèðîâàííûé äâèãàòåëü, íî ïðèðîäà âñå-òàêè âçÿëà ñâîå, è äîëüøå 2 ëåò îí, ê ñ÷àñòüþ, íå ïðîæèë Óëûáêà

2) Åñëè òàêîå âñå-òàêè ñëó÷èòñÿ, òî îñòàíåòñÿ òîëüêî ïîðàäîâàòüñÿ, ÷òî ìîé êðàñàâåö ñòàíåò êëàññèêîé áûñòðåé, ÷åì îæèäàëîñü.
_________________
Àíäðåé Ãåðàñèìîâ
Àðòåì
Ìîäåðàòîð


: 10.03.2003
: 8295
: Russia, Ufa

: , 20, 2012 10:28am     : Re: Ford Mustang îòêàçûâàåòñÿ îò èñòîðè÷åñêîãî îáëèêà

Andrew ():
2) Åñëè òàêîå âñå-òàêè ñëó÷èòñÿ, òî îñòàíåòñÿ òîëüêî ïîðàäîâàòüñÿ, ÷òî ìîé êðàñàâåö ñòàíåò êëàññèêîé áûñòðåé, ÷åì îæèäàëîñü.


Óìååøü âåçäå íàéòè ïëþñû, ìîëîäåö. Óëûáêà

Åùå îäèí ïëþñ â ýòîì ìèíóñå: åñëè "êëàññè÷åñêèé" Ìóñòàíã íå ïðîäàåòñÿ, òî åñòü äâà ïóòè: ñíÿòü åãî ñîâñåì èëè ïðåâðàòèòü â íå-Ìóñòàíã ñî ñòàðûì èìåíåì. Âòîðîå, íàâåðíîå, ëó÷øå.
Andrew
Ãëàâíûé òðåïà÷


: 01.03.2003
: 10421
: Èðêóòñê, RU -> Los Angeles, US

: , 20, 2012 3:34pm     : Re: Ford Mustang îòêàçûâàåòñÿ îò èñòîðè÷åñêîãî îáëèêà

Àðòåì ():
Åùå îäèí ïëþñ â ýòîì ìèíóñå: åñëè "êëàññè÷åñêèé" Ìóñòàíã íå ïðîäàåòñÿ

Îí ïðîäàåòñÿ, ïðîñòî íå òàêèìè òåìïàìè, êàêèìè õîòåëîñü áû Ôîðäó. Òî åñòü, ñ òî÷êè çðåíèÿ áèçíåñà, õîðîøî ïîíÿòíî, ïî÷åìó îíè õîòÿò ýêñïåðèìåíòèðîâàòü.

Àðòåì ():
òî åñòü äâà ïóòè: ñíÿòü åãî ñîâñåì èëè ïðåâðàòèòü â íå-Ìóñòàíã ñî ñòàðûì èìåíåì. Âòîðîå, íàâåðíîå, ëó÷øå.

Åñòü õîðîøàÿ ñòàòüÿ ïî ýòîé òî÷êå çðåíèÿ: Ford Mutilates Mustang’s Classic, Iconic Design For 2015 Model (Ïåðåâîä çàãîëîâêà: "Ôîðä êàëå÷èò êëàññè÷åñêèé äèçàéí ìîäåëüþ 2015 ãîäà").

Âûäåðæêà èç òåêñòà:
This new model looks nothing like the Mustang we’ve all grown to know and, presumably love. Instead, it just looks like what some non-car lover thinks what a cool car should look like in his or her head. It’s got no personality, no soul and no style. It is everything the old Mustangs weren’t and the truly sad part is that was probably Ford’s biggest goal for the 2015 model.

Mustang fans across the world would rather see the brand die than someone driving this unholy mutation with a “Mustang” logo slapped on its trunk.


È ÿ, ïîæàëóé, ñîãëàøóñü ñ ýòèì ìíåíèåì. Ëó÷øå óæ íèêàê, âìåñòî êàê-íèáóäü. Íî ïîâòîðþñü, ïîíèìàþ, ÷òî áèçíåñ åñòü áèçíåñ.
_________________
Àíäðåé Ãåðàñèìîâ
Andrew
Ãëàâíûé òðåïà÷


: 01.03.2003
: 10421
: Èðêóòñê, RU -> Los Angeles, US

: , 20, 2012 3:41pm     :

Âîçìîæíûé Ôîðä Ìóñòàíã 2015 ãîäà:


Õîíäà Àêêîðä:


Íàéäè, êàê ãîâîðèòñÿ, 10 îòëè÷èé.

Äî ñèõ ïîð Ìóñòàíã ëåãêî ìîæíî áûëî óçíàòü èç ìàññû ìàøèí - ó íåãî áûë è åñòü ñâîé ñòèëü. Îäíà äëèíà êàïîòà ÷åãî ñòîèò... Âñå-òàêè õî÷åòñÿ âåðèòü, ÷òî åñëè åãî äèçàéí è èçìåíÿò, òî íå ñäåëàþò åãî òåì óáîæåñòâîì, êîòîðîå âèäíî íà ôîòîãðàôèè âûøå.
_________________
Àíäðåé Ãåðàñèìîâ
Evgeniy Malyshev
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 12.03.2012
: 450
: Dm.-Pomryaskino/Ulyanovsk, Russia

: , 20, 2012 4:23pm     :

ïîëíûé àòñòîé! Íå çíàþ

Ìóñòàíã ýòî êëàññèêà..
_________________
If you`re going to San Francisco,
Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair
If you`re going to San Francisco,
You`re gonna meet some gentle people there
    e-mail
Andrew
Ãëàâíûé òðåïà÷


: 01.03.2003
: 10421
: Èðêóòñê, RU -> Los Angeles, US

: , 21, 2012 2:38am     : Re: Ford Mustang îòêàçûâàåòñÿ îò èñòîðè÷åñêîãî îáëèêà

Andrew ():

1) Ñ öåëüþ ïðèâëå÷ü ìîëîäóþ àóäèòîðèþ ïðèäåòñÿ ìåíÿòü íå òîëüêî âíåøíèé âèä Ìóñòàíãà, äåëàÿ åãî áîëåå ìîëîäåæíûì, íî è ìåíÿòü ïîäâåñêó è äâèãàòåëü. Íåñïðîñòà óæå áîëüøå ãîäà ïèøóò, ÷òî íîâàÿ âåðñèÿ Ìóñòàíãà ìîæåò ïîÿâèòüñÿ ñ 2.5-ëèòðîâûì 4-öèëèíäðîâûì òóðáèðîâàííûì äâèãàòåëåì. Ïîäâåñêó æå ìåíÿòü ïîòîìó, ÷òî ìíîãèå ìîëîäûå ëþäè, âûðîñøèå íà âñÿêèé Íèññàíàõ 350Z è ïðî÷èõ Ïðèóñàõ íà ñàìîì äåëå íå ïîíèìàþò òîãî óäîâîëüñòâèÿ, êîòîðîå ïîëó÷àåøü îò åçäû íà Muscle Car. Îò Muscle Car, ïî-ñóòè, íè÷åãî è íå îñòàíåòñÿ â òàêîì ñëó÷àå. Íàçûâàòü ýòî Ìóñòàíãîì ÿ íå ñìîãó.

Î, òîëüêî â÷åðà ÿ îá ýòîì íàïèñàë, à ñåãîäíÿ ïîäîáíóþ æå ìûñëü îçâó÷èëè â äðóãîé ñòàòüå ïî òåìå: http://spectator.org/archives/2012/04/20/the-mustang-becomes-an-obamam

More pertinent than its changing look will be its changing feel. Rumors abound, to the chagrin of drag racers, regarding the introduction of independent rear suspension. The five-liter engine supposedly morphs into a two-liter one. There is even talk of a hybrid Mustang.

Òàê ÷òî íà ñ÷åò ïîäâåñêè è äâèãàòåëÿ ïðåäïîëîæåíèÿ âîçíèêàþò íå òîëüêî ó ìåíÿ.

Íà÷èíàåòñÿ ñòàòüÿ çàìå÷àòåëüíî: "The Ford Motor Company is giving its Mustang a unique 50th birthday present: death." ("Ôîðä ãîòîâèò îñîáåííûé ïîäàðîê ê 50-ëåòèþ ñî äíÿ ðîæäåíèÿ Ìóñòàíãà: ñìåðòü.")

È çàìå÷àòåëüíàÿ ôðàçà â êîíöå: "Zero-to-sixty in five seconds just feels realer than global warming." ("Ðàçãîí äî ñîòíè çà 5 ñåêóíä ÷óâñòâóåòñÿ ãîðàçäî îùóòèìåé ãëîáàëüíîãî ïîòåïëåíèÿ") Èðîíè÷åñêè çëîé
_________________
Àíäðåé Ãåðàñèìîâ
Andrew
Ãëàâíûé òðåïà÷


: 01.03.2003
: 10421
: Èðêóòñê, RU -> Los Angeles, US

: , 21, 2012 5:39am     :

Ãàëàêòåêî îïàñíîñòå!!!1111îäèí-îäèí-îäèí
_________________
Àíäðåé Ãåðàñèìîâ
crp
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 09.08.2009
: 117

: , 22, 2012 6:29am     :

Andrew ():
Ãàëàêòåêî îïàñíîñòå!!!1111îäèí-îäèí-îäèí

äåéñòâèòåëüíî ãàëàêòè÷åñêèé êðåéñåð Óëûáêà
Ï.À.Í.
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 07.12.2011
: 115
: Óðàë

: , 23, 2012 3:33am     :

Åñëè ñìîòðåòü íà ôîòî, òî êàê ñàìîñòîÿòåëüíàÿ ìîäåëü, òàêîé àâòîìîáèëü âïîëíå íå ïëîõ. À âîò êàê çàìåíà Ìóñòàíãó - îòñòîé. Ìàøèíû ïðàêòè÷åñêè âñåõ ìàðîê ñòàíîâÿòñÿ íà îäíî ëèöî, è óáèâàòü èíäèâèäóàëüíîñòü Ìóñòàíãà, ýòî âåëè÷àéøàÿ ãëóïîñòü. Íó ïîñìîòðèì. Íàäåþñü äóõ Ôîðäà ñòàðøåãî, íå ïîçâîëèò èì ñîâåðøèòü òàêóþ ãëóïîñòü.
Ìîè ëþáèìûå Ïîðøå, íàäåþñü íå ïîéäóò òåì æå ïóò¸ì è íå óãðîáÿò 911-é.
_________________
Ó âðàãîâ ÿ âèæó òîëüêî ïëþñû - ýòî êðåñòû íà èõ ìîãèëàõ.
Andrew
Ãëàâíûé òðåïà÷


: 01.03.2003
: 10421
: Èðêóòñê, RU -> Los Angeles, US

: , 23, 2012 4:17am     :

Ï.À.Í. ():
Åñëè ñìîòðåòü íà ôîòî, òî êàê ñàìîñòîÿòåëüíàÿ ìîäåëü, òàêîé àâòîìîáèëü âïîëíå íå ïëîõ. À âîò êàê çàìåíà Ìóñòàíãó - îòñòîé.

Ñîãëàñåí.

Ï.À.Í. ():
Ìîè ëþáèìûå Ïîðøå, íàäåþñü íå ïîéäóò òåì æå ïóò¸ì è íå óãðîáÿò 911-é.

ß íå áîëüøîé ñïåöèàëèñò ïî Ïîðøå, íî íàñêîëüêî çíàþ, èõ äèçàéí íå ìåíÿëñÿ êàðäèíàëüíî ñ ñàìîãî íà÷àëà (c 1963 ãîäà) - è íè÷åãî, ìàøèíà ïî ïðåæíåìó î÷åíü êðàñèâà, ïîïóëÿðíà è èçâåñòíà. Íàäåþñü, òàêàÿ æå èñòîðèÿ áóäåò è ó Ìóñòàíãà, êîòîðûé, êîíå÷íî, ìåíÿëñÿ áîëåå êàðäèíàëüíî, íî íå íàñòîëüêî, êàê òî, î ÷åì íàïèñàíî âûøå.
_________________
Àíäðåé Ãåðàñèìîâ
MaxiM
Áóäóùèé àìåðèêàíåö


: 03.06.2003
: 3546
: Moscow

: , 23, 2012 11:23am     :

Ï.À.Í. ():
Åñëè ñìîòðåòü íà ôîòî, òî êàê ñàìîñòîÿòåëüíàÿ ìîäåëü, òàêîé àâòîìîáèëü âïîëíå íå ïëîõ. À âîò êàê çàìåíà Ìóñòàíãó - îòñòîé. Ìàøèíû ïðàêòè÷åñêè âñåõ ìàðîê ñòàíîâÿòñÿ íà îäíî ëèöî, è óáèâàòü èíäèâèäóàëüíîñòü Ìóñòàíãà, ýòî âåëè÷àéøàÿ ãëóïîñòü. Íó ïîñìîòðèì. Íàäåþñü äóõ Ôîðäà ñòàðøåãî, íå ïîçâîëèò èì ñîâåðøèòü òàêóþ ãëóïîñòü.
Ìîè ëþáèìûå Ïîðøå, íàäåþñü íå ïîéäóò òåì æå ïóò¸ì è íå óãðîáÿò 911-é.
Çàòî îíè êàéåí èçóðîäîâàëè. Âåñü â ëàìïî÷êàõ è âûãëÿäèò íå êàê ñïîðòêàð, à êàê çàëèçàííîå õðåí çíàåò ÷òî íà êîëåñàõ (èìõî).
_________________
MaxiM
Ï.À.Í.
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 07.12.2011
: 115
: Óðàë

: , 24, 2012 3:50am     :

:
Çàòî îíè êàéåí èçóðîäîâàëè. Âåñü â ëàìïî÷êàõ è âûãëÿäèò íå êàê ñïîðòêàð, à êàê çàëèçàííîå õðåí çíàåò ÷òî íà êîëåñàõ (èìõî).

Äà, ñîãëàñåí, ñíàðóæè ê íîâîìó Êàéåíó íàäî ïðèâûêíóòü. Ëèáî îäåòü åãî â îáâåñ - òîãäà íåïëîõî âûõîäèò.
À âîò â ñàëîíå îí âûøåë î÷åíü äîáðîòíûì è êðàñèâûì.
_________________
Ó âðàãîâ ÿ âèæó òîëüêî ïëþñû - ýòî êðåñòû íà èõ ìîãèëàõ.
Andrew
Ãëàâíûé òðåïà÷


: 01.03.2003
: 10421
: Èðêóòñê, RU -> Los Angeles, US

: , 9, 2012 4:10am     :

Ïðîäîëæàÿ òåìó, ðåáÿòà èç "Inside Line" íàáðîñàëè ìàêåòû òîãî, êàê ïî èõ ìíåíèþ ìîæåò âñå-òàêè âûãëÿäåòü Ìóñòàíã 2015-ãî ãîäà:






Êàê íàïèñàíî â ýòîé ñòàòüå, èíñàéäåð èç Ôîðäà ïîäòâåðäèë, ÷òî ýòè ìàêåòû î÷åíü ïîõîæè íà îðèãèíàëû.
_________________
Àíäðåé Ãåðàñèìîâ
Ï.À.Í.
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 07.12.2011
: 115
: Óðàë

: , 10, 2012 3:19am     :

Àíäðåé, êàê ïî ìíå, òàê ôîòî êðàñíîé ìàøèíêè(òî ÷òî âûøå), ìàëî ÷åì îòëè÷àåòñÿ îò ýòîãî ôîòî.
È âîîáùå ìàëî ïîõîæå íà òîò Ìóñòàíã, êîòîðûé ìû ëþáèì.
_________________
Ó âðàãîâ ÿ âèæó òîëüêî ïëþñû - ýòî êðåñòû íà èõ ìîãèëàõ.
Andrew
Ãëàâíûé òðåïà÷


: 01.03.2003
: 10421
: Èðêóòñê, RU -> Los Angeles, US

: , 10, 2012 5:50am     :

Ï.À.Í. ():
Àíäðåé, êàê ïî ìíå, òàê ôîòî êðàñíîé ìàøèíêè(òî ÷òî âûøå), ìàëî ÷åì îòëè÷àåòñÿ îò ýòîãî ôîòî.

Îòëè÷àåòñÿ íåñèëüíî, íî âñå-òàêè îòëè÷àåòñÿ (ðåøåòêà ðàäèàòîðà, ôàðû, çàäíèå áîêîâûå îêíà, áîêîâûå ëèíèè, ïîõîæèå íà òðàäèöèîííûé Ìóñòàíã, ðó÷êè íà äâåðÿõ, çåðêàëà, çàäíèå ôîíàðè (òîæå òðàäèöèîííî èìåþùèå 3 ôîíàðÿ, êàê è íàäî)).

Ï.À.Í. ():
È âîîáùå ìàëî ïîõîæå íà òîò Ìóñòàíã, êîòîðûé ìû ëþáèì.

Ñîãëàñåí. Íî â ýòîì õîòü ÷òî-òî åñòü îò Ìóñòàíãà, â îòëè÷èè îò Ýâîñà.
_________________
Àíäðåé Ãåðàñèìîâ
Helen_NJ
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 13.11.2003
: 1539
: NC, USA

: , 17, 2012 1:40am     :

Îé âýé! Ïîìíèòñÿ êîãäà ÿ ïåðâûé ðàç óâèäåëà "îáðóáëåííûé íîñ" (ó Mitsubishi êàæåòñÿ), íàäåÿëàñü, ÷òî ýòà ìîäà íå ïðèæèâåòñÿ, à âîò ïîäè æ òû... Ãðóñòü
    e-mail
:   
           Ðàçãîâîðû îá Àìåðèêå -> Çà ðóëåì : GMT
1, 2, 3  .
1 3

 
 







Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group